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22_boomer

jager
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Reply with quote  #1 
I know it would take a custom reamer and dies but the brass has a rebated rim so it can use a standard size AR bolt. Probably costly compared to a 6mmX45 that uses the .223 brass or the 6mmAR that uses the Grendel brass. I really want a 6mm in a standard AR package and thought that if the 6mmX45 is OK then maybe the 22 Nosler case modified to the same lenght as the 6X45 might be better since the case has more capacity and fits the standard bolt and uses 6.8spc mags. What are all the bad points with my thinking -- don't hold back, I said it was a dumb idea but I can't seem to get it out of my head. I have not ordered any 22 Nosler brass to work up a dummy yet but that would be my first step.
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steve satern

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Reply with quote  #2 
I like the idea of a 6mm cartridge for the AR platform, I did something like this about 2003 with the 6Br cartridge. I turned the rim down to the 223 diameter and recut the extractor groove, but the brass took a beating. The first thing I ran into was the math, pi to be exact. The diameter of the cartridge and pressure is consented to the bolt face diameter. The Grendel gets away with it because the bolt face is larger and spreds the pressure over a larger surface,that being said this will not make the bolt stronger. The Grendel is not running to the pressure of the 5.56 if it did bolts would not last very long. Necking down the 6.8 to 6mm is a viable option. I'm interested in what others have found out.
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204 AR

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Reply with quote  #3 
I have 22 Nosler, the Nosler brass is beautiful, but very soft. In fact I've discovered that at about 5 loadings the case rim has expanded enough that brass sticks in the bolt. I have a bunch of brass so will go with it till it's gone probably, but then I will switch to a 6.8 bolt and use 6mm Hagar brass necked down. 

For your needs take your pick between the 6mm AR, (6mm Predator and 243 LBC are all basically the same, Grendel brass necked down), and the 6x6.8. I have 2, a 6mm Predator and 243 LBC. Great rounds, very versatile and good Lapua brass, and even Hdy isn't bad.  Figure on 87's at 3k fps or a little better, and long barrel life. 
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204 AR

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Reply with quote  #4 
It's not a dumb question btw, and if the brass was better it might be a decent option for light bullets. Case length would limit your options if you want to use bullets heavier than say about 75 gr.  I have read that some lots of brass are much better so hopefully they get it good and consistent.
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22_boomer

jager
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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks guys for the input. I've also been tempted to just go the 6mm Grendel/6mmAR route since I have Two 6.5 Grendel rifles and a lot of fired Hornady brass. The reason I was considering the use of 22 Nosler brass was it was designed to use the standard AR bolt and I thought maybe I could run higher pressure but then I'm no engineer. Over-all cost might be less with 6mmAR since there are available dies and probably barrels also. 

Can any of you tell me if the .243LBC bolt might be stronger than the standard Grendel (.136) bolt. I believe the .243LBC bolt face depth is .125" and I figured it might add some strength to the bolt lugs. building a .243LBC might be a good choice but I don't see much info about that round in an AR.
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steve satern

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Reply with quote  #6 
Some years back, maybe 10, Match Rifle guys used a cartridge called the 6mm Hagar, spelling might not be correct but at the time the dies were available and it did very well to 600 yards. The parent cartridge is the 6.8 SPC. I know the bolts lasted and the magazines are available.
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22_boomer

jager
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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve satern
Some years back, maybe 10, Match Rifle guys used a cartridge called the 6mm Hagar, spelling might not be correct but at the time the dies were available and it did very well to 600 yards. The parent cartridge is the 6.8 SPC. I know the bolts lasted and the magazines are available.


I checked into that and it looked good but for shooting in the AR I think there was a problem with using 100gr to 105gr bullets. They were too long for the 6.8 spc mag when loaded correctly. Finding something that is already done with dies, mags and such is a really good point -- Maybe I should just go with the lighter bullets!

It's kind of funny that I wanted to go with the 22 Nosler to start which is very similar in shape to the 6.8 spc case but with a rebated rim. I could create the 6mm Hagar with that 22 Nosler brass. 
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204 AR

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Reply with quote  #8 
I have broken lugs off of two .125 bolts, both about the 1400 round area. One was from Surplus Ammo and Arms, which they replaced. The other was from Radical. 

I now buy better bolts. Young has an outstanding looking bolt which is definitely thicker around the case head and I've never read of a Maxim bolt breaking. 

As for the Hagar, brass and dies are readily available. But long bullets will be a problem for sure. 
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22_boomer

jager
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Reply with quote  #9 
I think I need  to really look into the Hagar. I believe it was used in either bench rest or some other type of matches for a while.

I'll have to look into the two manufacturers of bolts you mentioned -- their names always come up when the talk centers on strong bolts.
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XSFRGR

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Reply with quote  #10 
Pacific Tool & Gage made my 6mm Nosler reamers for both chamber, and sizing die.  Creedmore Sports has new 22 Nosler brass, and Midway Supply usually has Dog Town Brass for about half the price of Nosler.  I've found Dog Town to be a good, durable, uniform brass.  In all instances I necked up new brass, and then annealed it before loading. 
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