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22_boomer

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Reply with quote  #1 
There are other sites that think the SAMMI Compliant compound throat is the holy grail for 6.5 Grendels. I'm not a gunsmith but I don't know of any other SAMMI chambers with compound throats. I personally think it's to allow the Russian steel case Grendel ammo to fire and extract easy from the chamber -- any thoughts on this? Alexander spent some time getting the Russians to manufacture the ammo and he had to be sure it would work in his barrels. I know there are some Grendel II owners that shoot the steel stuff with no problems but there are some that do have problems. This is one reason I think the SAMMI Grendel chamber was designed to handle the steel cases that tend to get tight in a normal throat since steel doesn't kind of spring back after firing. This is just my dumb a$$ thinking and I know it's not worth a darn.
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WFA

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Reply with quote  #2 
There is a wealth of information available on the 6.5 Grendel Forum (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/), and IIRC, the compound throat has been discussed in detail (in other words, lots of posts and opinions).  Not trying to chase you away, just trying to give you some information. 

Walt

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22_boomer

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WFA
There is a wealth of information available on the 6.5 Grendel Forum (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/), and IIRC, the compound throat has been discussed in detail (in other words, lots of posts and opinions).  Not trying to chase you away, just trying to give you some information. 

Walt


I've been there and the information is a little too slanted in the direction of the compound throat being the best thing since sliced bread. I would probably be kicked off the site. I was over on the Calguns site and read this:

"This is what Dave Kiff from Pacific Tool and Guage had to say about the subject. He was involved in fixing the 6.8SPC to the 6.8SPCII as well. He makes reamers for barrel manufactures. 

"I have 27 small to large AR manufactures that have been using the 6.5 Grendel II and or the 264 LBC-AR for 2-3 years. I personally guarantee that the parallel throat will out shoot the double angle crap you all have been force fed. If you have any questions feel free to call me and I will personally make you see the light. Do not speculate on the throat, it is different than the 6.5x47 Lapua. It is a precise throat that will out shoot and outperform the standard Grendel SAAMI throat that has been unable to perform with newer loaded factory ammo. I am the same person that developed the 6.8 SPC II and have corrected many other poorly designed cartridges. It is one thing to design, it’s another to make it shoot.

Dave Kiff 
Pacific Tool & Gauge 
541-826-5808"

As you can see it was not a Satern issue it was a full industry issue. All this was censored from the 6.5 Grendel forum. All that is allowed on the 65grendel forum is the Alexander Arms party line and thats it".

I personally have found the same problem over on ar15.com. If you start talking about a issue with a rifle with a Grendel II barrel you will get a rash of people saying you don't have a SAMMI barrel and that's the problem. 

What gets me is Alexander's original barrel did not have the compound throat and then he got involved with the Russians and I was thinking the throat was changed to help extraction of steel cases. Again, I'm a dummy and don't know what the heck the real reason is. I first bought a Satern 24" barrel that makes me a master target shooter. I then got an Alexander 16" barrel because it was on a super sale -- SS and fluted -- so I had something to shoot the cheap Russian stuff.


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Buttermilk

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Reply with quote  #4 
My understanding is the compound throat angle is so that the Grendel will shoot the Scenar bullets accurately.
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22_boomer

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Reply with quote  #5 
It would be a shame if they actually designed the chamber to shoot one type of bullet accurately. I guess life is strange. I was thinking it was to work better with the Russian stuff but looking at the SAMMI chamber drawing it just shows an abrupt change in throat diameter. I have both -- an Alexander Grendel and a Satern Grendel II and they both shoot really well. I can't tell the difference -- if there really is any.
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Buttermilk

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Reply with quote  #6 
It Was Designed to shoot many different length/weight bullets equally well. The compound angle throat allows that. Not just one bullet.

Turned out that the longer parallel throat wouldn't shoot the scenars accurately but would the others. Apparently the compound throat shoots all of them well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 22_boomer
It would be a shame if they actually designed the chamber to shoot one type of bullet accurately. I guess life is strange. I was thinking it was to work better with the Russian stuff but looking at the SAMMI chamber drawing it just shows an abrupt change in throat diameter. I have both -- an Alexander Grendel and a Satern Grendel II and they both shoot really well. I can't tell the difference -- if there really is any.
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Borrego Bob

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thats the story but it turns out that the scenars just didn't like the long throat PLUS the powder they were using (AA2520 and other ball powders)  as we are using the same long throat and getting good results with the Scenars. Basically they interpreted the data wrong. Scenars do like the long throat as long provided they get the right powder with the scenars. The idea that the compound throat shoots all bullets while the orginal throat does not was a myth. We have proved it over and over. Our ongoing Grendel II reloading project is proof of that. When shooting scenars with a Grendel II just use the right powder 8208XBR or ARComp. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IJ99k4Kei86K7BmQGqezj67EA4UJ-cYlN8V6_NH0jqE/edit#gid=1673536134

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Buttermilk

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Reply with quote  #8 
I have a Grendel II barrel coming so I'm not locked into the SAAMI version. I actually like certain aspects of the II...

I also don't plan to shoot the scenars, even if they do shoot good in the II.
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pajasonc

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Reply with quote  #9 
New member here.  I am a member at ar15.com and 65grendel.com
I think the saami compound throat is a excellent chamber for all bullet weights when its done right.  Problem is there seems to be a lot of issues where the chamber is left a bit short, probably from reamer wear.  I myself just got a 18" Alexander arms barrel and its short chambered.  Tough to extract unfired rounds from the chamber with charging handle.  The Grendel 2 chamber is easier and cheaper to make correctly.  This is just my opinion but it is based on internet research and real life experience.  
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Borrego Bob

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pajasonc
New member here.  I am a member at ar15.com and 65grendel.com
I think the saami compound throat is a excellent chamber for all bullet weights when its done right.  Problem is there seems to be a lot of issues where the chamber is left a bit short, probably from reamer wear.  I myself just got a 18" Alexander arms barrel and its short chambered.  Tough to extract unfired rounds from the chamber with charging handle.  The Grendel 2 chamber is easier and cheaper to make correctly.  This is just my opinion but it is based on internet research and real life experience.  


I think you nailed it. Can you make a short video showing that issue?

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steve satern

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Reply with quote  #11 
I can say with a great deal of certainty that the compound throat is no more difficult or expensive to chamber than the straight throat. The throat is ground into the chamber reamer. Reamer wear can be and is a issue if a high speed steel reamer is used, we use carbide.The compound throat suffers from stackable tolerances during the grinding process. After several hundred rounds the compound throat is indistinguishable as it has been eroded away. Throats have nothing to do with head space, head space checks are done in the shoulder area across the datum line. A technical note, SAAMI has no dimensions listed for the no go gage, only go and field measurements are listed. A no go gage is typically the middle of the specification. We use it as a self imposed limit. Hopefully this helps.
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